Fairness of Challenge Rules - Discussion

[wombat146]

Copied and pasted from the Forum Rules thread:



Written by Felis:

I read, understood and agree with this part below. BUT


Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiStegall
The Oscraps family is relaxed and easy going and we have created a creative, fun and caring environment where everyone is welcomed to join and participate in.


Our rules are very simple and there aren't that many of them...

We ask you follow normal board etiquette and respect each other.
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Have a great time.
The Oscraps Family


But I can not accept the new politics for 'fairness to all'. At the way as this text is written and bolded in red it's humiliating and discriminative for us Non-English-Speaking Members.
Many of my pages was rejected for ridiculous and petty reasons.

I didn't hear any arguments exactly how my low level of English and misunderstood of some details is unfair to people who have privilege to be born with native english. When we all are spend time in creating layout, and I'm use only Oscraps products. If you pretend to be so fairly and strict you could try to post explanation also in french or german (it wouldn't be helpful for me but we have big group of them).

For half of rejected pages I was able to defended with arguments how I'm follow the rules but just I've been more creative than just to scraplift page. I no need some imaginary gestapo of Cheery O's to put frame on my creativity, this isn't way to make art and it's not fun anymore.
Quote:
In fairness to all members that participate, can everyone PLEASE ensure that you read all the rules for this challenge so that you can claim your challenge points fairly. Thank you!

__________________

 

[wombat146]

Felis, we do try to be fair in regards to our challenge rules. You are more than welcome to be as creative as you want to and post any layout you wish to create in the gallery, but I think you would agree that to enter into a challenge you need to follow the rules for that challenge, everyone does, just not you. Our challenges have been created to inspire people to be creative within a defined area, challenging the scrapper to sometimes go out of their normal way of scrapping. That is what a challenge is all about.

Our challenge hosts work very hard to create these challenges and host them and as you may know, some of them are not native English speaking people either so I think they do a fabulous job. Hosts need to contact people if their layouts do not meet the requirements, they are not doing it to either annoy you or stifle your creativity, they do this so that everyone plays fair.

We admire all non-English people that enjoy our forum and enter our challenges, and all of the Cheery O's are more than happy to help out anyone that needs a hand. If you are unsure about the wording of a challenge rule then please post a comment in the challenge thread and ask the host to explain it in another way, or, if another person that speaks your language sees the comment, they can also explain to you.

We really do not want you feel angry or picked on, that is certainly not our intention, so we hope to see you continue in participating in our challenges but if you choose not to then that is your decision.

 

[taxed4ever]

Very well said Ona!! Felis we hope that you will continue to participate in the challenges and that you feel welcome here at the O!! :hug:

 

[scrap-genie]

But, Felis has been told challenge LOs that met the requirements did not a few times as well as some that really did not meet them. She doesn't seem to like it either way, but even I don't like it when she's called out in error. Currently one of the challenges has entries that don't meet the requirements, so other folks are probably getting messages too. I'm pretty sure in some cases the rules are simply not read carefully and when language differences are present, that only makes it worse. Don't know how you can keep everyone happy.

 

[VickiStegall]

Felis, we do try to be fair in regards to our challenge rules. You are more than welcome to be as creative as you want to and post any layout you wish to create in the gallery, but I think you would agree that to enter into a challenge you need to follow the rules for that challenge, everyone does, just not you. Our challenges have been created to inspire people to be creative within a defined area, challenging the scrapper to sometimes go out of their normal way of scrapping. That is what a challenge is all about.

Our challenge hosts work very hard to create these challenges and host them and as you may know, some of them are not native English speaking people either so I think they do a fabulous job. Hosts need to contact people if their layouts do not meet the requirements, they are not doing it to either annoy you or stifle your creativity, they do this so that everyone plays fair.

We admire all non-English people that enjoy our forum and enter our challenges, and all of the Cheery O's are more than happy to help out anyone that needs a hand. If you are unsure about the wording of a challenge rule then please post a comment in the challenge thread and ask the host to explain it in another way, or, if another person that speaks your language sees the comment, they can also explain to you.

We really do not want you feel angry or picked on, that is certainly not our intention, so we hope to see you continue in participating in our challenges but if you choose not to then that is your decision.

Thanks Ona. That is exactly our intent.

 

[VickiStegall]

But, Felis has been told challenge LOs that met the requirements did not a few times as well as some that really did not meet them. She doesn't seem to like it either way, but even I don't like it when she's called out in error. Currently one of the challenges has entries that don't meet the requirements, so other folks are probably getting messages too. I'm pretty sure in some cases the rules are simply not read carefully and when language differences are present, that only makes it worse. Don't know how you can keep everyone happy.

I was not aware there was an issue with this. It is very fine line we walk on keeping people happy and establishing rules. And, you're right, you can't always keep everyone happy. The best we can do is try to remain fair and consistent. If there is ever a time when this becomes an issue,I hope everyone knows they can come to me. I will always listen and look in to things.



If anyone is ever unsure of the requirements, please post in the challenge thread that they need clarification. I know that sometimes I think I've said something perfectly clearly and noone knows what on earth I'm talking about.

 

[felis]

Felis, we do try to be fair in regards to our challenge rules. You are more than welcome to be as creative as you want to and post any layout you wish to create in the gallery, but I think you would agree that to enter into a challenge you need to follow the rules for that challenge, everyone does, just not you. Our challenges have been created to inspire people to be creative within a defined area, challenging the scrapper to sometimes go out of their normal way of scrapping. That is what a challenge is all about.

What piss me off is that all the time you talk about 'fairness', as if I misunderstood something, I'm unfair to native english speaker, but no one can argument exactly how?! If you can please do it now!
Its bolded in red!!! And can just say:

''To attention to all members that participate, can everyone PLEASE ensure that you read all the rules for this challenge so that you can claim your challenge points properly. Thank you! ''

or something like that, which sounds no accusingly. Can you see the difference 'fairly' mean I'm being unfair, there is intent, sound as I want to make injustice.

 

[felis]

We admire all non-English people that enjoy our forum and enter our challenges, and all of the Cheery O's are more than happy to help out anyone that needs a hand. If you are unsure about the wording of a challenge rule then please post a comment in the challenge thread and ask the host to explain it in another way, or, if another person that speaks your language sees the comment, they can also explain to you.

Oh, and Ona, when you want to be so detailed,
Can you please, you answer me how Cherry O was 'fair' to me when rejected my page because rule was "special memory that you said is my home", I scrap lovely page about my garden, but NO home not including garden. Guess what it is, because when you by new home, garden come with it. And if someone want to sneak pic inside in my house and to complain did have more expensive furniture than mine, this isn't fairly, it's ridiculous.

On another page Cheery O's couldn't see the word art which I'm use, and she continue to insists that cant even when I say it exactly where it is. Other member was use absolutely the same word art and wasn't rejected.

Or this letter "When you create the sun and moon from a third paper, you have used 3 papers and only 4 elements from the freebie. But if you (re) create your sun and moon from one of the other elements in the kit, you would be following the requirements."
But the page is so much edited than you can't prove exactly how I'm created this element if I wasn't honest enough to I admit my guilt. I make a special photo for this challenge, and work long on it. So I don't think was SO unfair, to the other members who was scrap in that.

Seriously most of the arguments are so petty.

 

[felis]

I heartfelt please if other members had pages refused because of petty or ridiculous reasons, now is the time to show your position clearly! Share here, please! Don't be afraid, don't allow to be censored at this way!

 

[felis]

I was not aware there was an issue with this. It is very fine line we walk on keeping people happy and establishing rules. And, you're right, you can't always keep everyone happy. The best we can do is try to remain fair and consistent. If there is ever a time when this becomes an issue,

I hope everyone knows they can come to me.

I will always listen and look in to things.

I didn't know this. Why to you?!
There is host and she monitoring the things. I'm send explanation directly to the Cherry O who is rejected me, and post my complaint in daily Chat thread.

It's not a matter to keeps me happy or not, but when someone try to
blame me that I'm been unfairly
I insist to have strong argumentation.


fairness to all

 

[Madi]

Oh, and Ona, when you want to be so detailed,

Or this letter "When you create the sun and moon from a third paper, you have used 3 papers and only 4 elements from the freebie. But if you (re) create your sun and moon from one of the other elements in the kit, you would be following the requirements."
But the page is so much edited than you can't prove exactly how I'm created this element if I wasn't honest enough to I admit my guilt. I make a special photo for this challenge, and work long on it. So I don't think was SO unfair, to the other members who was scrap in that.

Seriously most of the arguments are so petty.

I don't think Ona can answer this, it was my challenge.

petty or not, challenge rules are rules, even if you are honest and admit publicly in the forum that you did not follow the rules, what else can I do ?

 

[felis]

I don't think Ona can answer this, it was my challenge.

petty or not, challenge rules are rules, even if you are honest and admit publicly in the forum that you did not follow the rules, what else can I do ?

What about to explain how my creativity is unfair to other?! If you dont mind, and if you can find arguments, please!
Especially after you was my inspiration for artist pages and only I tried was to impress you. Do the lazier page where I just throw in few elements will satisfy more the other members, and do they really care?!

When you dare to blame me that I'm unfair explain me how, please!!!

EDIT: here are the details about this case:
I had used exactly 2 papers, 5 elements and 1 word art, challenge rules is
For this challenge you have to use exactly:
2 papers 5 elements 1 wordart from this mini kit!
no more, no less!
You can use the chosen elements more than once, you can recolour, resize and duplicate as much as you like.

I told you: "I cut my first element sun and moon from paper 1, I'm not sure is that cheating, but I told it creativity"
And you answer me: I does not matter how you use the papers/elements as long as you use exactly the 2 papers, 5 elements and 1 wordart!
But then in some moment you changed your mind and decided that element cut from paper is actually another paper.
The irony is that many time I even don't use these coupons. I could not accept my pages to be refused just because you insist that in translation I'm misunderstood you. Especially when reason is 'this is unfair to all'. How?!

 

[Madi]

Felis, when you credit that you use papers #4 and #10, to create your layout,
That would be the two papers allowed

When you next state that you have used paper 1 to create your own element, you are in fact using 3 papers,
And only 4 elements from the provided freebie.

I thought i had explained it clearly,
Even added a simple solution to fix it.
At that point it is up to you to decide to fix it or not.

I don't think this has anything to do with creativity. We are all allowed to scrap our own styles, be as creative as we want, as long as we follow the specific challenge requirements.

 

[felis]

Let see how to tell this more clear
All I can not agree is this pompous 'fairness to all' and 'fairly',
because as reject my pages on this basis you directly blame me that I'm been unfairly.
2 or 3 papers it's petty and you still aren't explain me

Do the lazier page where I just throw in few elements will satisfy more the other members, and do they really care?!

Felis, when you credit that you use papers #4 and #10, to create your layout,
That would be the two papers allowed

When you next state that you have used paper 1 to create your own element, you are in fact using 3 papers,
And only 4 elements from the provided freebie.

I thought i had explained it clearly,
Even added a simple solution to fix it.
At that point it is up to you to decide to fix it or not.

I don't think this has anything to do with creativity. We are all allowed to scrap our own styles, be as creative as we want, as long as we follow the specific challenge requirements.

 

[felis]

Ona is wrote:

Felis, you need to follow the rules for that challenge, everyone does, just not you.

And I post these https://ozone.oscraps.com/forum/showpost.php?p=599236&postcount=8 obviously examples that mistake is not in my language, but how it was explained to me.

Yes Diane is the host of one and we continue to can't reach agreement, because I'm never try to be unfair, this is only how you want to looks like.

 

[veer]

Too bad Felis that you feel unfairly treated, on other forums there are also rules. I have also ever been banned from a site because I always accidentally linked to other shops. I did not do this on purpose but I always forgot to erase them.
And I also got a warning a few times, but it was a habit to copy and then I forgot again.
But is this unfair? No, I did not follow the rules.
And every shop has its rules, go and see it too, you have to follow the rules.

 

[felis]

Too bad Felis that you feel unfairly treated, on other forums there are also rules. I have also ever been banned from a site because I always accidentally linked to other shops. I did not do this on purpose but I always forgot to erase them.
And I also got a warning a few times, but it was a habit to copy and then I forgot again.
But is this unfair? No, I did not follow the rules.
And every shop has its rules, go and see it too, you have to follow the rules.

As I say:

What piss me off is that all the time you talk about 'fairness', as if I misunderstood something, I'm unfair to native english speaker, but no one can argument exactly how?! If you can please do it now!
Its bolded in red!!! And can just say:

''On attention to all members that participate, can everyone PLEASE ensure that you read all the rules for this challenge so that you can claim your challenge points properly. Thank you! ''

or something like that, which sounds no accusingly. Can you see the difference 'fairly' mean I'm being unfair, there is intent, sound as I want to make injustice.

 

[veer]

I do not understand why you take it personally? I am also a non-English speaking person and I also have to ask for help regularly because I do not understand everything .

But this rule is in the red so that every participant knows what the new rules are. But that is why you should not be personally attacked, there are still several people who participate in challenges that we appeal because they do not follow the rules!

 

[felis]

I do not understand why you take it personally? I am also a non-English speaking person and I also have to ask for help regularly because I do not understand everything .

But this rule is in the red so that every participant knows what the new rules are. But that is why you should not be personally attacked, there are still several people who participate in challenges that we appeal because they do not follow the rules!

Please check here my pages are rejected for petty reasons, I'm followed the rules, and asked every time when I'm not sure. Hosts change their opinion on the end on the month, saying only I was 'unfair', but can say how.

I started wrote a note under every page I posted that I don't collect points, but my page continued to be rejected.

 

[VickiStegall]

Is it the wording "In fairness" that is at issue here? if so, I see no reason we can't take that out and let it simply say "all members that participate, can everyone PLEASE ensure that you read all the rules for this challenge so that you can claim your challenge points. Thank you!"


I think part of the issue here is that perhaps you might be interpreting the In fairness bit to mean more than it actually does in everyday native English speaking conversation. I am sorry if you feel targeted by this, it is certainly not our intent. In my opinion only, we say things like "in fairness to all" when we are very much trying not to target any one person. Regardless, I am very sorry if we have in any way made you feel attacked or undervalued. You have been a long time friend and family member here in the forums/gallery and I hope that we can overcome this.

 

[felis]

Yes, finally! This is exactly what I try to explain from the beginning when you
talk about 'fairness', as if I misunderstood something, I'm unfair to native english speaker,
mean I'm being unfair, there is intent, sound as I want to make injustice.

Is it the wording "In fairness" that is at issue here? if so, I see no reason we can't take that out and let it simply say "all members that participate, can everyone PLEASE ensure that you read all the rules for this challenge so that you can claim your challenge points. Thank you!"


I think part of the issue here is that perhaps you might be interpreting the In fairness bit to mean more than it actually does in everyday native English speaking conversation. I am sorry if you feel targeted by this, it is certainly not our intent. In my opinion only, we say things like "in fairness to all" when we are very much trying not to target any one person. Regardless, I am very sorry if we have in any way made you feel attacked or undervalued. You have been a long time friend and family member here in the forums/gallery and I hope that we can overcome this.

If they think something is doing wrong, is not properly, or it's not enough, I don't mind to fix it, if they tell me. (What is happen with me and Ona once.)
But three of my pages are rejected 'because fairness to all', blame me that I'm been unfairly to other, without to concretise how.
In the case with Diane at first she let me think she allow this page, then in a last minute this page was refused. Pages are refused at the last days when it's difficult to react and come with a new one on time. In the other two cases reasons are very strange and without foundation for. All of them was received compliments before that.
Veer, told me it's not personal, but it's happened systematic and continue even after I started wrote a note under every page I posted that I don't collect points.

The thing I can not accept is 'in fairness to all', it's not equal to 'you are not follow the rules', because it's obvious that I was try to do the best with the way they are explained this rules.


I don't try to tells you how to write your rules or what they should be.
Just declare that I'm disagree with them at the way that they looks now. As you can see this year I post only into the gallery and designer challenges, following the rules there.

 

[felis]

Now I saw you are changed the disturbing part of the text, thank you so much for the understanding! It's probably don't sound as something important, but it is. The devil is in the details.

 

[VickiStegall]

You are most welcome.